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 by rams74
5 years 4 months ago
 Total posts:   1460  
 Joined:  Nov 19 2015
Italy   Glendale, Arizona
Pro Bowl

AvengerRam wrote:I agree, as its generally a one-option play. I prefer a play in which the QB has 2 or 3 guys he can go to.


If I remember the story correctly, when Kurt Warner got to Arizona, he felt the same way. Haley would call the play, Kurt would look up and see Larry Fitzgerald covered, and wouldn't throw it to him. Eventually, though, he learned that Fitz would go up and catch the fade no matter how closely he was covered. It became their go-to play in the red zone, and was as close to an automatic touchdown as there was.

Of course, it took two hall of fame players to perfect it, too.

 by Indrid Cold
5 years 4 months ago
 Total posts:   861  
 Joined:  Sep 24 2015
United States of America   Redington Beach, FL
Veteran

ramsman34 wrote:I don't think so. Not with how the TE's have been coming on. They create way more mismatches and can block better than Williams. Sean can run the same shit out of 12 as he can out of 11, especially if he flexes one of the TE's outside or to the slot.


I'll bet that we run that same % if of plays out of 11 personnel on Monday night as we have all year. Red zone TE involvement...yeah that's a wrinkle we'll continue to see...out of 11 personnel. But I call BS that all sudden we're gonna see a shift to more 12 formations.

 by aeneas1
5 years 4 months ago
 Total posts:   16894  
 Joined:  Sep 13 2015
United States of America   Norcal
Hall of Fame

AvengerRam wrote:Here's an interesting stat...

Kupp was targeted 56 times this year and produced 6 TDs.
Everett/Higbee/Reynolds have been targeted 53 times and have produced 5 TDs.

thing is, half of kupp's tds (3) came from outside of the redzone while all of everett's, reynold's and higbee's tds came from within the redzone - in fact 4 of their 6 tds came from 10 yards in... so it's going to be interesting (a challenge?) to see if the rams can find a longer distance td threat among those 3 guys, it's clear that mcvay already likes going to the tall guys once the rams near the endzone.

Indrid Cold wrote:I'll bet that we run that same % if of plays out of 11 personnel on Monday night as we have all year. Red zone TE involvement...yeah that's a wrinkle we'll continue to see...out of 11 personnel. But I call BS that all sudden we're gonna see a shift to more 12 formations.

yeah, i can't see the rams all of a sudden changing to 12 personnel, and why would they? to do so they would either have to take gurley off the field or go with gurley, woods, cooks and 2 tight ends, not sure what that would accomplish? moreover the rams do much more than "just" run out of an 11, as talking heads would have you believe, as if it's a specific formation as opposed to a personnel package - the rams are extremely creative with their 11, often making it look like a 1, or even a 0 at times.

anyway, as i mentioned in another thread, the rams didn't chuck the 11 when kupp missed 2 consecutive games, instead gurley and reynolds combined to make up for kupp's targets, while everett and higbee saw a combined 3 targets in each of those 2 games.

whatever the case, it's going to be interesting to see how it plays out - i would really like to see reynolds emerge as a bona fide threat outside of the redzone, a guy who comes close to picking up where kupp left off!

 by rams74
5 years 4 months ago
 Total posts:   1460  
 Joined:  Nov 19 2015
Italy   Glendale, Arizona
Pro Bowl

aeneas1 wrote:whatever the case, it's going to be interesting to see how it plays out - i would really like to see reynolds emerge as a bona fide threat outside of the redzone, a guy who comes close to picking up where kupp left off!


During Kupp's earlier absence, what we also often saw was Reynolds lining up wide and Woods moving to the slot. I think we should expect to see more of that, given Reynolds' physical attributes. That could lead to some more TDs for Reynolds, too.

 by ramsman34
5 years 4 months ago
 Total posts:   8463  
 Joined:  Apr 16 2015
United States of America   Back in LA baby!
Moderator

aeneas1 wrote:thing is, half of kupp's tds (3) came from outside of the redzone while all of everett's, reynold's and higbee's tds came from within the redzone - in fact 4 of their 6 tds came from 10 yards in... so it's going to be interesting (a challenge?) to see if the rams can find a longer distance td threat among those 3 guys, it's clear that mcvay already likes going to the tall guys once the rams near the endzone.


yeah, i can't see the rams all of a sudden changing to 12 personnel, and why would they? to do so they would either have to take gurley off the field or go with gurley, woods, cooks and 2 tight ends, not sure what that would accomplish? moreover the rams do much more than "just" run out of an 11, as talking heads would have you believe, as if it's a specific formation as opposed to a personnel package - the rams are extremely creative with their 11, often making it look like a 1, or even a 0 at times.

anyway, as i mentioned in another thread, the rams didn't chuck the 11 when kupp missed 2 consecutive games, instead gurley and reynolds combined to make up for kupp's targets, while everett and higbee saw a combined 3 targets in each of those 2 games.

whatever the case, it's going to be interesting to see how it plays out - i would really like to see reynolds emerge as a bona fide threat outside of the redzone, a guy who comes close to picking up where kupp left off!


I am not saying all of a sudden, or that they are going to scrap "11", and overhaul and do a ton of 12-personnel sets. I said, and this is because McVay makes all the plays look the same/similar, that he can run the same things out of 12 that he does 11. You would see Everett or Higbee in the slot or even flexed out wide - out of pre-snap motion. That is all I am saying. Different chess pieces making similar moves on the board, with Woods and Cooks being the constants. The "wrinkle" is pre-snap formation, potentially dictating defensive personnel.

It's really not that far fetched.

 by Elvis
5 years 4 months ago
 Total posts:   38381  
 Joined:  Mar 28 2015
United States of America   Los Angeles
Administrator

If the idea is we'll start using Everett as a WR and Higbee as TE a lot of the time, sounds pretty plausible to me, then we'll just have to decide if it's 11 or 12 personnel.

 by aeneas1
5 years 4 months ago
 Total posts:   16894  
 Joined:  Sep 13 2015
United States of America   Norcal
Hall of Fame

ramsman34 wrote:I am not saying all of a sudden, or that they are going to scrap "11", and overhaul and do a ton of 12-personnel sets. I said, and this is because McVay makes all the plays look the same/similar, that he can run the same things out of 12 that he does 11. You would see Everett or Higbee in the slot or even flexed out wide - out of pre-snap motion. That is all I am saying. Different chess pieces making similar moves on the board, with Woods and Cooks being the constants. The "wrinkle" is pre-snap formation, potentially dictating defensive personnel.

It's really not that far fetched.

i hear ya, and that could certainly happen i suppose, i'm just not sure why you would want 2 tight ends on the field with one replacing a wr? as good as everett has been, he's not a wr in terms of speed, agility and route running ability imo, so it's hard for me to see him outside with woods in the slot, or inside with woods on the outside, when you can instead have a guy like reynolds in the slot or outside, a tall wr who can stretch the field and pick up yards after the catch, a guy who knows the wr routes? however i do love the idea of woods, cooks, reynolds and everett with higbee on the bench... anyway, it wasn't my intention to dismiss your thoughts, or anyone else's take for that matter, it just seems that in order to have 2 tight ends on the field on a semi-regular basis, you would have to have one of the tight ends learn wr routes, or go away from what you've been doing all season.

 by ramsman34
5 years 4 months ago
 Total posts:   8463  
 Joined:  Apr 16 2015
United States of America   Back in LA baby!
Moderator

aeneas1 wrote:i hear ya, and that could certainly happen i suppose, i'm just not sure why you would want 2 tight ends on the field with one replacing a wr? as good as everett has been, he's not a wr in terms of speed, agility and route running ability imo, so it's hard for me to see him outside with woods in the slot, or inside with woods on the outside, when you can instead have a guy like reynolds in the slot or outside, a tall wr who can stretch the field and pick up yards after the catch, a guy who knows the wr routes? however i do love the idea of woods, cooks, reynolds and everett with higbee on the bench... anyway, it wasn't my intention to dismiss your thoughts, or anyone else's take for that matter, it just seems that in order to have 2 tight ends on the field on a semi-regular basis, you would have to have one of the tight ends learn wr routes, or go away from what you've been doing all season.


I think McVay has cooked up some packages with one or both TE's in the slot or even outside - not a complete philosophical shift by any means - just some new stuff that KC and the rest of the NFL has not seen yet. To me, its not about having a TE replace a WR and run those routes. It's about giving a different personnel package/shifts/motions with some different route combos attached - again, not a lot of plays - but just enough to make the other team not be prepared and have to adjust to it.

We will see.

 by aeneas1
5 years 4 months ago
 Total posts:   16894  
 Joined:  Sep 13 2015
United States of America   Norcal
Hall of Fame

ramsman34 wrote:I think McVay has cooked up some packages with one or both TE's in the slot or even outside - not a complete philosophical shift by any means - just some new stuff that KC and the rest of the NFL has not seen yet. To me, its not about having a TE replace a WR and run those routes. It's about giving a different personnel package/shifts/motions with some different route combos attached - again, not a lot of plays - but just enough to make the other team not be prepared and have to adjust to it.

We will see.

i think i may have misunderstood what some were talking about... sure, i could easily see mcvay coming up with some clever plays/formations here and there, something the bad guys haven't seen on rams film... but i thought some were thinking he would instead chuck what the rams have been doing all year, and start going with 12 packages a lot (or bunching an additional tight end with 2 wr in a hybrid 11 a lot), which is hard for me to fathom... but, hey, he could very well do just that!

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60 posts Mar 28 2024