[aeneas1]

Some of you are missing the point. This has nothing to do with a work relationships. This has nothing to do with relationship at all. This is harassment. This is forced and unwanted.

If two people, at the work place, want to date, and there is no company policy against it, there's nothing wrong with that. Lots of people meet at work and end up leading happy lives together.

Harassment is harassment - has nothing to do with local waters or dipping your pen in company ink.

yep.

and to pretend that what these guys are being accused of is just an extension of office romance going sideways, or the tolerance of office romance, is just plain silly imo... i met my beautiful wife at the workplace, our 27th anniversary is coming up, i also fired a guy at the same workplace, a 50-year-old lech who wouldn't stop giving female workers unsolicited shoulder massages, he would quietly approach them from behind, whether they were seated or standing, and just start giving them a massage.

anyway, as a father who has a young, beautiful daughter in college, who will soon be joining the workforce, i'm happy as hell to see this bullshit finally coming to a head, i'm also happy as hell that her generation's view on this stuff tends to be much more enlightened than past generations.

[ramsman34]

yep.

and to pretend that what these guys are being accused of is just an extension of office romance going sideways, or the tolerance of office romance, is just plain silly imo... i met my beautiful wife at the workplace, our 27th anniversary is coming up, i also fired a guy at the same workplace, a 50-year-old lech who wouldn't stop giving female workers unsolicited shoulder massages, he would quietly approach them from behind, whether they were seated or standing, and just start giving them a massage.

anyway, as a father who has a young, beautiful daughter in college, who will soon be joining the workforce, i'm happy as hell to see this bullshit finally coming to a head, i'm also happy as hell that her generation's view on this stuff tends to be much more enlightened than past generations.

Very well said.

[Haden]

Sheesh Gareth.....pontificate much?

It's about proximity, ego, and sex drive.....historically a bad combination in the workplace.

Do you want wax on now about "it's all about power"??? ....because that does NOT fit here as neither Faulk, Evans, nor Ike were the Plaintiff's boss.

In my career, I've had to mete out discipline in these types of workplace situations....so don't lecture me about "missing the point" okay!!

As for your mamby-pamby office romance scenario "that nothing is wrong with" because there is "no corporate policy against it"....you advertise your naivete IMO.
Question: What happens when the loving dating corporate couple break up because,
oh I dunno.....THE GUY STARTS DATING ANOTHER GIRL!!!???

D'ya think the scorned one is capable of going down to HR and saying
"his advances were unwanted & unappreciated....and I felt pressured"???

I have watched these office-romance train wrecks derail promising careers in my work history.....and I have had to do the cleanup afterwards....not fun!!

Haden was right....you have to outlaw 100% of that stuff at the office....or you open the door to creating a toxic workplace for your staffers.

Absolute truth on all points.

[Gareth]

yep.

and to pretend that what these guys are being accused of is just an extension of office romance going sideways, or the tolerance of office romance, is just plain silly imo... i met my beautiful wife at the workplace, our 27th anniversary is coming up, i also fired a guy at the same workplace, a 50-year-old lech who wouldn't stop giving female workers unsolicited shoulder massages, he would quietly approach them from behind, whether they were seated or standing, and just start giving them a massage.

anyway, as a father who has a young, beautiful daughter in college, who will soon be joining the workforce, i'm happy as hell to see this bullshit finally coming to a head, i'm also happy as hell that her generation's view on this stuff tends to be much more enlightened than past generations.

Great post. Thanks for that.

[PARAM]

There's nothing wrong with entering into a relationship with a co-worker. It gets extremely questionable if it's a subordinate. And as many have described, there's a difference between asking for a date and propositioning someone.

But like Aeneas1 pointed out, there is not the slightest similarity between a relationship and what these guys are alleged to have done. Unless you were born under a rock or in the jungle and raised by animals, you don't ask a woman on a date by pointing to your crotch and saying "when you gonna git on this?"

It the superiors at NFL Network to blame. Superstars on set talking in front of women like there are no women present has to be squelched immediately. I've been in offices where such behavior is allowed and in some cases it comes from both genders. That's a time bomb.

There's an old saying....even an animal doesn't shit where he eats. Crude? Sure. But whether your a rich superstar or a working stiff, work is done at work and everything else is done outside of work.

I have to say I'm disappointed with Marshall but I'm not surprised about any of them. And we will suffer from this too because we won't get his in depth analysis for quite some time. But if these allegations are true, it's a miniscule price to pay compared to what it cost the victim to make a living.

There's a new wave of how look at certain behavior and it's long overdue.

[haroldjackson29]

Who gives a damn when it's political or corporate rif raf, but it's hard to take when its a sports idol. Gesh.

What's the difference? They are all Celebrities, public figures.
The fact is the entire story is bogus tabloid junk. Can't you see that every other day it's one story after another. Politician,jock,actor..story after story. It's a joke. It's a Simpsons or Southpark episode. It's fake.

[BobCarl]

It the superiors at NFL are to blame

I think the blame goes back to High school ... and continues during college ... and continues into the pros ... as and has continued at the Hall of Fame level, and at the celebrity in the media level.

Faulk probably did the same thing with 100 or more women and most of them are happy to oblige.

A work environment ... a bar environment ... a back seat environment ... be a sports star and the world gives you carte blanche.

[safer]

Correct me if I'm wrong but Marshall has had kids with several different ladies. That kind of doing, I would think, could lead one to think they can do just about whatever they want, when it comes to the ladies. I'm not really surprised he is at the top of this list.................just wish he wasn't.

[dieterbrock]

yep.

and to pretend that what these guys are being accused of is just an extension of office romance going sideways, or the tolerance of office romance, is just plain silly imo... i met my beautiful wife at the workplace, our 27th anniversary is coming up, i also fired a guy at the same workplace, a 50-year-old lech who wouldn't stop giving female workers unsolicited shoulder massages, he would quietly approach them from behind, whether they were seated or standing, and just start giving them a massage.

anyway, as a father who has a young, beautiful daughter in college, who will soon be joining the workforce, i'm happy as hell to see this bullshit finally coming to a head, i'm also happy as hell that her generation's view on this stuff tends to be much more enlightened than past generations.

Awesome post.

[CanuckRightWinger]

So now I am some cyber-bully and Gareth is "a victim"
Maybe next time you want to make the distinction between office dating and sexual harassment Gareth, you can do it without telling fellow posters that "they missed the point." Pennsylvania made the same distinction just fine, without having to question somebody's judgement or their capacity for logic and comprehension.

Furthermore on the subject of distinctions.....SWAdude, as a pilot in the cockpit, I would submit, you work in a different work environment than those of us working in (& trying to efficiently manage) office mixed- gender work spaces...especially when it comes to:
proximity,
duration, (granted, unless of course, your co-pilot is a female )

Suffice it to say, the Airline Industry, is a unique one...and working in Flight Ops, where smart competent leader-type guys are hired to fly multi-million dollar aircraft containing hundreds of human beings....AND,
smart gals are hired for their pleasant appearance,competence, and communication/people skills.....well, put those two groups of employees on a bus to the hotel, after a long days flying, and disembark in a new city to overnight in an upscale hotel, where everybody has their own room....
...and I do not doubt at all that "many that you work with also met their wives at work"
Again, I am just trying to make a distinction about workplace uniqueness between when you are flying for an Airline versus a Management guy trying to minimize problems in a co-ed office environment. Again, I am not arguing here....just trying to point out differences in our respective work environments.

Finally, aeneas1.....I agree with you regarding the leches that are out there! I have two beautiful daughters (thank God they look like their mother!) out in the work force...25 and 22 years old....both in Customer Service positions. Ergo, I too am glad this aggressive type of bad male behavior in the workplace is being sorted out. So I really don't know what we are arguing about....
except that maybe we have had different experiences in our work histories vis a vis workplace romances.....and those experiences have honed our views of what works....
and what leads to future potential problems.

I'll leave it at this....in Canada last week, TSN (our version of ESPN) just terminated a baseball commentator because TSN Corporate HR got complaints about him from two female employees. The complaints were not identified....AND NEITHER WERE THE TWO FEMALE EMPLOYEES!!! I believe there is something in American Law about "the right to face your accuser".....
evidently in today's electrified "sexual harassment" environment there is no more "he said-she said".....at least for this former Blue Jay catcher, TSN HR just went with the "she said".

Like SWAdude opined...."Interesting world we live in."
Indeed!