[R4L]

Rich Hammond@Rich_Hammond

Only 30 of the current 89 Rams were on the roster when Jeff Fisher got fired, so McVay and Snead have turned over two-thirds of the roster in 16 months.

Joe Curley@vcsjoecurley

By my count, the Rams only have 18 players remaining from the group that moved to Los Angeles with the team two years ago.

Me
There are 26 players left from the Fisher era by my count. 2 of those are from the Spags era. I only counted guys that played a whole season, not practice squad guys.

By the time the season starts that number will roughly be around 20. So close to 30 players will be gone from that roster that Fisher couldn't win with.

That says a lot don't u think?

[/zn/]

Not at all.

Look, in 99, Vermeil had 6 players total from before he got there. This will be nothing like that.

There are normal free agency decisions because you can't keep everyone. (Tru).

There are normal system fit issues (Tree, Quinn, Tavon).

But even in normal years, teams have turnover. This won't exceed that by much, even with the system fit issues.

Another example, by the time he started winning in his 3rd year, Carroll in Seattle had 3 starters who were on the team before he got there. And one was the punter. There was not a single one on offense...no one.

Now THAT is weeding people out.

Rams will be extending far more than 3, let alone keeping them.

Heck in 2014, his 3rd year, Fisher had 9 players total on the roster who were there before 2012. That was 83% turnover. What's normal/average throughout the league in 3 years is 63% turnover, which out of 53 means retaining 20 guys in year 3.

Depending on their ability to sign Joyner, the Rams will probably have Joyner, Barron, Donald, Brockers, 1 or 2 linemen (Hav? Brown? Saffold?), Higbee, Goff, Gurley, Hekker, Zuerlein, and Cooper (PR), Littleton (STs ace).

There's also contributors like Fox and Longacre and Westbrooks whose fates are not yet clear. A few guys like that will stick.

Imagine where this team would be if they had NONE of those guys. Well, they INHERITED all of them.

I don't see anything like the kinds of REAL "weeding out/rebuilding" scenarios that have existed out there. (Like the ones I mentioned, Carroll in Seattle and Vermeil in St.L).



....

[R4L]

Not at all.

Look, in 99, Vermeil had 6 players total from before he got there. This will be nothing like that.

There are normal free agency decisions because you can't keep everyone. (Tru).

There are normal system fit issues (Tree, Quinn, Tavon).

But even in normal years, teams have turnover. This won't exceed that by much, even with the system fit issues.

Another example, by the time he started winning in his 3rd year, Carroll in Seattle had 3 starters who were on the team before he got there. And one was the punter. There was not a single one on offense...no one.

Now THAT is weeding people out.

Rams will be extending far more than 3, let alone keeping them.

Heck in 2014, his 3rd year, Fisher had 9 players total on the roster who were there before 2012. That was 83% turnover. What's normal/average throughout the league in 3 years is 63% turnover, which out of 53 means retaining 20 guys in year 3.

Depending on their ability to sign Joyner, the Rams will probably have Joyner, Barron, Donald, Brockers, 1 or 2 linemen (Hav? Brown? Saffold?), Higbee, Goff, Gurley, Hekker, Zuerlein, and Cooper (PR), Littleton (STs ace).

There's also contributors like Fox and Longacre and Westbrooks whose fates are not yet clear. A few guys like that will stick.

Imagine where this team would be if they had NONE of those guys. Well, they INHERITED all of them.

I don't see anything like the kinds of REAL "weeding out/rebuilding" scenarios that have existed out there. (Like the ones I mentioned, Carroll in Seattle and Vermeil in St.L).



....

U just can't stand it can u? U gotta stick up for your guy. That's your right i guess.

30 players in 2 years is quite a bit. Not 3 years like u say. By this average there will be 7 players left next season, which is pretty close to Vermeils 6. (Probably more, but u like averages).

My point was, Fisher can't coach. All the excuses in the world won't change that. Never have i heard "He was a great coach that got fired because of bad luck".

[aeneas1]

My point was, Fisher can't coach. All the excuses in the world won't change that. Never have i heard "He was a great coach that got fired because of bad luck".

last i heard mcvay had thanked fisher for leaving him such a talented roster, a shoe-in 11-5 team, and often calls him to pick his brain re player development and personnel decisions.

[R4L]

last i heard mcvay had thanked fisher for leaving him such a talented roster, a shoe-in 11-5 team, and often calls him to pick his brain re player development and personnel decisions.

Hahahaha. I see what u did there

[phoenixrising]

I think it says the Rams should be looking to part ways with Donald, Gurley, and Goff as soon as possible.

[Elvis]

I find the turnover to be pretty remarkable myself. Though Rich's use of the 90 man roster to come up with a % isn't very sensible.

Let's see what the 53 man roster looks like, who the starters are...

[/zn/]

I find the turnover to be pretty remarkable myself. Though Rich's use of the 90 man roster to come up with a % isn't very sensible.

Let's see what the 53 man roster looks like, who the starters are...

I didn't use 90 I used 53.

These are averages but normal numbers are 80% retention annually. That's 11 a year gone. In three years that means that on avg. 33 of the 1st year's 53 are gone. That's 33 in 3 years which is just under 63% of the original 1st year 53. Remember, that's league-wide normal without factoring in system switches.

But we dont have to use numbers. Barring injury, this year the starters will include Joyner, Barron, Donald, Brockers, Saffold, Brown, Hav, Higbee, Goff, and Gurley. By 2014 the Rams had only 9 players on the entire roster who were there before 2012. In 99 they had 6 players on the entire roster who were there before 97.

Imagine if Vermeil started in 97 with his free safety, ILB, defensive player of the year to go with Farr and Carter on the DL, 3/5ths of his OL (only 1 pre-DV lineman was a starter in 99), his TE, QB, and a star running back. Let alone a full complement of special teamers (DV added the punter, kicker, and returners).

And of course more.

This is just not a "rebuild" or a "start over" or even remarkable change for a team undergoing system changes and therefore moving on from guys who are not system fits.

If you can't see that that all adds up to inheriting a large number of players who remain starters, then, you're not really comparing this to situations that actually WERE like that (moving on, starting over).

I mean it;s all pretty obvious and clear. You keep the GM you're going to keep a large group of the players, if you are going to keep a large group of the players (which they are) then that's why you kept the GM.

[/zn/]

U just can't stand it
can u? U gotta stick up for your guy. That's your right i guess.

You don't seem to get how the personalized motives attack double-edged sword works.

I showed with facts that this team inherited a lot of key talent.

Your only counter is that I am "sticking up for Fisher." Actually what I am doing is countering your weak argument.

Here's the double edged sword. If I did that kind of thing I could just as easily turn it around and say that you are so blinded by Fisher hate that you cannot cope with facts.

But notice I don't do that. I just show you that the counter argument is stronger. Why? Because it;s not so much that the facts are on my side as I am on the side of the facts.

I wasn't arguing about "Fisher." I was pointing out that this roster includes a large and significant and important portion of inherited talent. Why do I point that out? Because it does. If me saying that sticks in your Fisher craw I don't care about that either way.

This team would not be winning already unless it inherited--and kept--a lot of talent. That's even with the normal system switch effects you get with new coaches.

If you keep up the way you're going, which is to be emotional and personal first and fact-oriented a distant third, fourth, or fifth, then you will not give me a valid answer to the following question:

How far along would this team be last year and now if it did not have and had to find a very good FS, a DT who was also D player of the year, a good veteran DE, Saffold and another 2/5ths of the OL, a franchise qb, and a star RB.

And that;'s leaving out a whole list of important role players, some of whom are league stars at their roles: Hekker, Zuerlein, Cooper, Littleton, and (among other things) a whole complement of D-linemen like Longacre, Westbrooks, and Fox. Etc.

If you can answer that honestly without making it personal I will acknowledge it respectfully.

[aeneas1]

I find the turnover to be pretty remarkable myself.

if you ask me, i think mcvay did a helluva job with keenum, barnes, grob, kendricks, britt, quick, wichmann, donnal, cunnigham, harkey, etc., you know, all of those returnees from 2016....