52 posts
  • 2 / 6
  • 1
  • 2
  • 6
 by safer
6 years 8 months ago
 Total posts:   1275  
 Joined:  Feb 03 2016
United States of America   LA Coliseum
Pro Bowl

aeneas1 wrote:have at rg, jamon at rt, still strikes me as odd, would prefer to see the reverse.... whatever the case, i don't think it matters much if mcvay can roll out an effective scheme and goff looks like the real deal (which i think is possible regardless of where have/jamon play)... anyhoo, first preseason game in just 23 days!

I think Jamon is the better athlete and a bit quicker than Big Rob. Big Rob, to me is an excellent technician who can't get exposed in space as much on the inside. Granted, he is tall for an OG.

 by Hacksaw
6 years 8 months ago
 Total posts:   24523  
 Joined:  Apr 15 2015
United States of America   AT THE BEACH
Moderator

aeneas1 wrote:have at rg, jamon at rt, still strikes me as odd, would prefer to see the reverse....


I feel the same way. Heck Have's is a tall object to throw a ball over. Sorta Haden over France. Does he have bad feet to play of the end?

 by aeneas1
6 years 8 months ago
 Total posts:   16894  
 Joined:  Sep 13 2015
United States of America   Norcal
Hall of Fame

safer wrote:I think Jamon is the better athlete and a bit quicker than Big Rob. Big Rob, to me is an excellent technician who can't get exposed in space as much on the inside. Granted, he is tall for an OG.

honestly, as i mentioned before, i don't think it really matters where the play, but brown has had success at guard and havenstein at right tackle, albeit inconsistent overall, but neither have been flops, why not let them get better at those positions, where's the fire, they've only been in the league two years... the move, to me, smacks of a total lack of confidence in havenstein at rt, i.e. we spent a second on him so let's try to put him somewhere, just not at rt, which i just don't get, especially given how bad every olineman has looked at times in fisher's scheme....

 by safer
6 years 8 months ago
 Total posts:   1275  
 Joined:  Feb 03 2016
United States of America   LA Coliseum
Pro Bowl

aeneas1 wrote:honestly, as i mentioned before, i don't think it really matters where the play, but brown has had success at guard and havenstein at right tackle, albeit inconsistent overall, but neither have been flops, why not let them get better at those positions, where's the fire, they've only been in the league two years... the move, to me, smacks of a total lack of confidence in havenstein at rt, i.e. we spent a second on him so let's try to put him somewhere, just not at rt, which i just don't get, especially given how bad every olineman has looked at times in fisher's scheme....

Hack--maybe part of their thinking is because we will use more zone blocking schemes this year that Big Rob wouldn't be quick enough to execute from the outside. I do agree that there doesn't seem to be a big difference between the two in terms of results.

 by ramsman34
6 years 8 months ago
 Total posts:   8462  
 Joined:  Apr 16 2015
United States of America   Back in LA baby!
Moderator

Just look at the number of 1st round picks in the front 7!! ALL except Barwin, 2nd rd. And that secondary ain't no joke either.

Offense, ehem, better make some fuckin plays this season.

 by snackdaddy
6 years 8 months ago
 Total posts:   9630  
 Joined:  May 30 2015
United States of America   Merced California
Hall of Fame

Neil039 wrote:This defense looks really tough on paper, man I hope Wade gets them playing like we know they can. A top 20 offense and a top 10 defense could end the below .500 mark plaguing this team :shock:


Before last year's collapse, a lot of people thought we were a quarterback away from being a legit playoff contender. If the defense can play like we think they will, the offense only needs to get close to mediocre. It all hinges on Goff.

 by Hacksaw
6 years 8 months ago
 Total posts:   24523  
 Joined:  Apr 15 2015
United States of America   AT THE BEACH
Moderator

safer wrote:Hack--maybe part of their thinking is because we will use more zone blocking schemes this year that Big Rob wouldn't be quick enough to execute from the outside. I do agree that there doesn't seem to be a big difference between the two in terms of results.
Well that would make sense then. If they don't ZB then perhaps a switch up. I like that they are getting trained to play multiple positions.

 by /zn/
6 years 8 months ago
 Total posts:   6758  
 Joined:  Jun 28 2015
United States of America   Maine
Hall of Fame

aeneas1 wrote: the move, to me, smacks of a total lack of confidence in havenstein at rt, i.e. we spent a second on him so let's try to put him somewhere, just not at rt, which i just don't get, especially given how bad every olineman has looked at times in fisher's scheme....


Kromer uses guards differently. From that perspective, Hav isn't going to guard as a demotion--it's a promotion. Kromer wants his best lineman at guard, and with the left side complete, out of the remaining guys, that's Hav.

When Chicago drafted Kyle Long, Kromer put him at guard, and that caused local Bears fans and writers to ask why. They assumed that meant Kromer thought less of Long. Actually, he explained, in his scheme he values guard over tackle and wants his better players at guard. This led to a lot of articles discussing how and why Kromer values guard over tackle. Here are some samples from that:

from Pre-camp check: Centers and guards

June, 26, 2014

http://dynamic.espn.go.com/blog/chicago ... id=4692690

Overview: Keeping the interior of the pocket clean allows the quarterback to step up and follow through on throws, and in 2013 the trio of starters Roberto Garza, Kyle Long and Matt Slauson certainly allowed the Chicago Bears’ signal callers to do that with relative ease.

“We want the protection system to start from the inside out,” offensive coordinator Aaron Kromer said.

It’s probably safe to say the interior of Chicago’s offensive line is its strength, and should only improve with the team bringing back all the starters while ramping up the competition at some of the backup spots.

“It’s exciting,” Slauson said. “This is the first time in my career where all five guys have stayed the same. Hopefully we can build off all the progress we made last year.”


===

Bears’ new line: Guards valued over tackles
Kromer installing Saints philosophy that protection starts from inside out

May 09, 2013
Dan Pompei

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013 ... ints-bears

If you want to know why the Bears used their first-round draft pick on a guard for the first time in 52 years, cast your gaze in the vicinity of Bourbon Street.

In New Orleans, where the Saints play a level of offense only dreamed about in Chicago, guards are more important than tackles. And the Bears are adopting the Saints’ philosophy.

Conventional wisdom no longer applies on the Bears offensive line, which is why Kyle Long will be the focal point when rookie camp opens Friday at Halas Hall.

“We feel protection starts from the inside out,” said offensive coordinator Aaron Kromer, who came to the Bears in the offseason from the Saints, for whom he was the offensive line coach. “With the Saints we really felt we needed to keep the interior part of the defensive line at the line of scrimmage in protection, so we put a big emphasis on our guard position to do that. We feel that same way here.”

From the first time Long puts on pads, he will be the Bears’ most talented offensive lineman. They could line him up at tackle, but they are putting him at guard in part because that’s the position they want their most talented lineman to play.

In the passing scheme being installed by coach Marc Trestman and Kromer, the Bears rather would risk pressure from an outside rush than an inside rush. An argument can be made that interior rushes have become considerably more effective in recent years as coordinators have schemed more inside blitzes. And it is easier to help tackles than guards.

“If they can get in the face of your quarterback, it’s a problem in the throwing game,” Kromer said. “So we try to keep them on the line of scrimmage (with interior blockers) and control our edges and help our tackles with formation, tight end presence and back presence.”

Interior protection probably was more important for the Saints than it will be for the Bears because of the quarterbacks involved. Drew Brees, at 6 feet, is a good 3 inches shorter than Jay Cutler. Shorter quarterbacks have more vision issues when defenders are pushing the pocket.

“But as you grow with it and continue to study the protection system, you realize it helps any quarterback,” Kromer said.

Some of Cutler’s inconsistencies in 2012 probably were rooted in his feeling unsettled because of interior pressure or the consistent threat of it.

An emphasis on guards was apparent when Trestman and Kromer were assistants with the Raiders a decade ago. Among the Oakland guards during that time were eight-time Pro Bowl selection Steve Wisniewski, first-round draft pick Mo Collins and 330-pound Frank Middleton.

In New Orleans, the guards Kromer coached included four-time Pro Bowler Jahri Evans, two-time Pro Bowler Carl Nicks and Ben Grubbs, once a first-round pick of the Ravens.

An athletic guard who can move his feet is all well and good, but what Trestman and Kromer really are looking for is powerhouses who could win an airplane pull. It’s about being stronger than the player across the line and the ability to set the pocket.

In all the talk about Long’s athleticism, the power he is capable of generating has been overlooked. When general manager Phil Emery introduced Long at a Halas Hall news conference, he said, “Besides the athletic ability … beyond the (football) smarts … is his toughness and his physicalness in his style of play.”

The other guards also should give the Bears more physical play than they had in the interior last year.

Kromer said the tape he has studied shows free-agent addition Matt Slausen can set the pocket. That’s why he’s a Bear.

“He’s very strong, and he has a powerful anchor point,” one NFL talent evaluator said.

Even Gabe Carimi, should he get on the field, is capable of giving the Bears muscle inside. Despite not having his leg strength after offseason surgery, he arguably was the most physical guard last year in three starts there.

In the 93-year history of the Bears, guards mostly have been afterthoughts. But as the presence of Long will remind us this weekend, that is not the case anymore.




For Bears, guards are the new tackles

New Bears offensive coordinator Aaron Kromer emphasizes the interior of his offensive line over the bookend tackle spots, the more traditional “premium” spots in the trenches. What does this mean for the Bears and specifically some of their draft picks?

May 13, 2013

http://www.windycitygridiron.com/2013/5 ... ron-kromer

Many were surprised when the Bears made Kyle Long the 20th overall pick in last month’s draft. It was reported that Long was considered a prospect at guard who could eventually slide out to a tackle spot. Bears fans and reporters alike cheered this notion, the idea that the Bears picked a guy who could anchor an interior spot now but eventually be the franchise tackle that the team has lacked since John Tait retired back in 2008.

Fans will note that since that time, the team has been better at drafting tackles who end up being guards (Gabe Carimi, Lance Louis) or drafting left tackles who end up better on the right (J’Marcus Webb). Either way, the idea that the Bears might finally be turning the page on the shabbily built lines of recent seasons was welcome relief.

But the new coaching staff of Marc Trestman and Kromer have other ideas. The two believe in building an offensive line from the inside out.

Writes Dan Pompei:

“We feel protection starts from the inside out,” said offensive coordinator Aaron Kromer, who came to the Bears in the offseason from the Saints, for whom he was the offensive line coach. “With the Saints we really felt we needed to keep the interior part of the defensive line at the line of scrimmage in protection, so we put a big emphasis on our guard position to do that. We feel that same way here.”

This idea is something Kromer did with the New Orleans Saints, making guards Jahri Evans and Ben Grubbs household names, in addition to building Carl Nicks from a 5th round pick to one of the highest paid guards in the league.

The reasoning behind this is two-fold: one, in an offense like what Sean Payton uses or Trestman’s West Coast scheme, guards help establish the pocket for the quarterback and second, in the run game, it uses a lot of athletic, fast, pulling guards to get outside and downfield to block defenders.

From the first time Long puts on pads, he will be the Bears’ most talented offensive lineman. They could line him up at tackle, but they are putting him at guard in part because that’s the position they want their most talented lineman to play.

In the passing scheme being installed by coach Marc Trestman and Kromer, the Bears rather would risk pressure from an outside rush than an inside rush. An argument can be made that interior rushes have become considerably more effective in recent years as coordinators have schemed more inside blitzes. And it is easier to help tackles than guards.
In addition to Long, the Bears’ fifth round pick Jordan Mills projects to be either a guard or a tackle as well. It is my hunch that the Bears believe that Kromer will either try to mold him into a starting guard, or perhaps to be the swing tackle and a most valued back up for the future.

By most accounts, Mills has a long way to go with his footwork, something a teacher like Kromer should be able to coach into him, so I suspect he could be a project for a guard position down the road.

The Bears are entering a brave new offensive world and at some point it projects to be an improvement over the deficiency seen in recent seasons. Expect the reboot in the trenches to start from the inside out. If Trestman and Kromer can find their anchor guards, to match their anchor LT Jermon Bushrod, and can get a serviceable RT, that will be more than enough to drop the sack numbers Jay Cutler has suffered.

I also suspect Kromer will be working to find a replacement for Roberto Garza down the road. He was successful in molding an undrafted center who bounced around the league, Brian de la Puente, into a solid starter in New Orleans. Garza’s heir could be a guy already on the team or it could be a future draft pick.

The fact is, the Bears should have a solid line for years to come, from the inside, out.

 by RamsFanSince82
6 years 7 months ago
 Total posts:   5851  
 Joined:  Aug 20 2015
United States of America   So. Cal.
Hall of Fame




IRVINE, Calif. -- The Los Angeles Rams, less than a week away from their first preseason game, are experimenting with the makeup of their offensive line. Rob Havenstein has spent almost the entire offseason transitioning to right guard, with Jamon Brown seemingly locking down the job as the starting right tackle near the end of the offseason program. But Havenstein and Brown switched positions during a light practice from UC Irvine on Sunday, each of them returning to the spots they played most frequently in the NFL.

Rams coach Sean McVay said he and the coaches have been talking about toying with a switch for the past week or so and wanted to wait until after Saturday's joint practice with the Los Angeles Chargers to implement it.

They'll test it out for another day or two, with no promises thereafter.

"We’re just trying to figure out the right combination in terms of how we want to do things," McVay said. "I think we feel really good about what Jamon and Rob have done in that right side, but with Rob’s history playing tackle and Jamon’s history playing guard, [we] also want to have contingency plans in place if one of them were to go down."

Brown, listed at 6-foot-4 and 330 pounds, played both tackle positions at Louisville, but was used mostly as a guard by former coach Jeff Fisher in his first two years in the NFL. Havenstein, 6-foot-8 and 328 pounds, was a right tackle at Wisconsin and in his first two years in the NFL, performing a lot better as a rookie than he did as a second-year player.

Havenstein's move to guard was initially made at least in part to accommodate Greg Robinson, who was moving from left tackle to right tackle after the acquisition of Andrew Whitworth. Robinson was ultimately dealt to the Lions for a 2018 sixth-round pick, but Havenstein remained at right guard and Brown continued to get first-team snaps at right tackle -- until Sunday.

"We’re just continuing to find whatever that best mix is for our five guys up front," McVay said. "Really, with the exception of [left guard Rodger Saffold], [center John Sullivan] and Whitworth, [the left tackle], all those guys are kind of moving around as we continue to find the best way to get those five coordinating up front.”

 by Hacksaw
6 years 7 months ago
 Total posts:   24523  
 Joined:  Apr 15 2015
United States of America   AT THE BEACH
Moderator

Sounds to me like this is more of the same 'multiple position' work being put in. Perhaps they just wanted the 2 of them to really wrap their head around the other guys position. Either that or they were sucking. Which appeared to be in the same zip code.

I hope they can get it right and (knock on wood) stay upright. If so, I'll feel better about our chances.

  • 2 / 6
  • 1
  • 2
  • 6
52 posts Mar 28 2024