[dieterbrock]

You know, I keep hearing about this winning/losing culture thing. Ever notice losing teams rarely have good quarterbacks? And winning teams rarely have bad quarterbacks? I believe if you find your franchise quarterback you will win and in turn develop that "winning culture".

I think Drew Brees and Philip Rivers would like a word with you...

[St. Loser Fan]

In St. Louis, they take pride in being in the "Show-me" State and treat their sports teams likewise. Sure when the team excelled they supported them but that's easy to do. It's "the thing" to do. Old ladies and folks who would otherwise not give a shit about sports are talking about winning teams. When the team sucks, the regular fans stay away.

I disagree St. Louis didn't have a hand in what transpired with the Rams. Show-Me fans sold their tickets to opposing fans (which doesn't change profit margin but neither promotes so called "community oriented" business). The City played hardball because of the lousy lease (and financial contraints) they agreed to originally. Not that I blame either of those parties but damn man, they gotta own it if it's true.

We own it. We know our crimes and paid for it dearly. We have an empty Dome that's still being paid off. We'll never have pro football ever again. In addition all the politicians that lost the Rams (Missouri governor, County executive and City mayor) are all out of office.

And I'm not letting my fellow Rams fans off the hook. But I think the embarrassing invasions by visiting fans into the Dome was a function of the stubhub.com culture. Travelling to a road game two decades ago was a challenge. You'd either have to secure tickets in another via a friend or show up at the stadium and hope you find a scalper.

Now with stubhub and other online resale sites it's a cakewalk to travel to a road game to see your team. Two seasons ago AT&T stadium was completely invaded by 49ers fans.

Should the Cowboys be taken from Dallas because of this? No.

You guys on the coast have natural barriers to keeping visiting fans away. Travel is more expensive and takes longer plus your cities are expensive to visit. I tried to price out coming to LA last season for a game and it was nearly twice as much as going to the Rams game in New Orleans that I ended up going to.

You don't really see "national" teams like the Packers, Steelers or Patriots fans "invade" a West Coast stadium outside of transplants that moved to LA. But St. Louis and other flyover country cities are easy to travel to. Especially St. Louis since we're a major Southwest hub. In addition St. Louis can be driven to in a day by Chicago, Green Bay, Tennessee, Dallas, Detroit, Kansas City, Minnesota, Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Atlanta and Cleveland fans.

I'm not throwing out excuses: I'm just trying to explain the mechanics of how it happened. I even did it once myself when the Packers came to St. Louis a few years ago. But I sold my $65 face value seats for nearly $275/ticket. Couldn't pass it up.

[Elvis]

Well I will agree that unlike GF, SK spends on the team. Coaches salaries for example. At least he did that with Fisher.

But fortunately for us it wasn't all bad since GF/Shaw lucked into Vermeil and the rest is history.

....

You don't hire Wade Phillips if you're trying to do things on the cheap...

[Elvis]

GF maxed the cap too.

BTW I am not one of those who believes GF deliberately gutted the team. I just think Robinson/Shaw couldn't draft.

...

The Rams took Mike Schad with the idea that he wasn't 1st round talent and they wouldn't have to pay him 1st round money.

Before the salary cap teams like SF and Dallas simply out spent the Rams putting them at a competitive disadvantage. The salary cap was a big factor in letting the GSOT happen...

[Elvis]

I don't think spreading yourself to thin is ever a good thing.

In theory, at least, Kroenke's son Josh owns and runs the Denver teams.

Stan's most valuable franchise, the Arsenal have won the cup 3 of the last 4 years. (Maybe the British have a different culture than we do?)

His 2nd most valuable franchise, the Rams, got a little catching up to do...

[/zn/]

The Rams took Mike Schad with the idea that he wasn't 1st round talent and they wouldn't have to pay him 1st round money.

Before the salary cap teams like SF and Dallas simply out spent the Rams putting them at a competitive disadvantage. The salary cap was a big factor in letting the GSOT happen...

See that's one of the stories I don't buy. They took Schad because the guy they wanted was snatched up before they picked. They then took Schad as a fall back because that's a Shaw thing--he counts on paper measurables more than anything else. Schad looked good on paper as an athlete.

It's impossible to not pay a 1st round pick 1st round money. You don't get to say to a pick "you're not a real 1st rounder, so we won't pay you that way." The pick determines the range of what a guy signs for. Shaw would know that.

The team that was deliberately gutting talent would not have traded for Everett.

....

Big, Strong and Fast, Mike Schad Quickly Had Rams' Attention

June 10, 1986|RICH ROBERTS | Times Staff Writer

http://articles.latimes.com/1986-06-10/ ... ge-degrees

Michael Schad, offensive tackle, Queen's University. 6-5, 290, 4.89 40. Incredible physical specimen, eye-catching speed and exceptional athletic ability. Diamond in the rough. Needs a great deal of work on his position technique but is most advanced player from Canadian college in years. Hasn't faced top competition.

That's the sort of thing National Football League draftniks were saying last spring about Mike Schad, the incredible hulk from Canada.

Dick Steinberg, the New England Patriots' astute talent scout, said cautiously that Schad "doesn't look like your typical green Canadian (football player)."

Others noted that anything else that big from the north woods had antlers, or was a blue ox named Babe. But this specimen also has two college degrees, can two-hand dunk a basketball, run the hurdles and handle a 50-caliber machine gun.

.November 09, 1986

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1986 ... n-robinson

Mike Schad is an offensive tackle who was the Rams` first-round draft choice. He is 6 feet 5 inches and 290 pounds and runs faster than normal 6-5, 290-pounders.

``Physically, he`s the best line prospect any of us have ever seen,``said Rams` coach John Robinson.

Fine. But Schad played at Queen`s University in Canada. He wasn`t even an All-America. He was drafted strictly on potential. Yet he was paid for potential, too.

Schad got $1.06 million over four years, including a signing bonus of $400,000. He even held out until Aug. 4 before signing, thereby missing training camp time crucial to the progress of anyone with such limited big-time football experience.

After reporting late, Schad hurt himself lifting weights during the preseason and is now on injured reserve.

Schad might end up in the Hall of Fame for all anybody knows. The question is whether it is fair to a Mike Singletary, who has been called the best middle linebacker in the league for three years and still makes no more money than Mike Schad does.

[Elvis]

It's impossible to not pay a 1st round pick 1st round money. You don't get to say to a pick "you're not a real 1st rounder, so we won't pay you that way." The pick determines the range of what a guy signs for. Shaw would know that.

In 1986 you did. Schad was paid less than the players picked before and after him:

http://articles.latimes.com/1986-08-03/ ... mike-schad

Rams' Schad May Be Ready to Sign
August 03, 1986|RICH ROBERTS

Mike Schad, the Rams' first-round draft choice, was believed to be in Anaheim with agent Gil Scott Saturday night and ready to sign a contract.

The offensive tackle from Queen's College has been a holdout for three weeks. The Rams were offering a package worth $900,000 over four years; Schad was asking at least what the players drafted immediately before and after him received: $1.3 million to $1.2 million. ...

[snackdaddy]

I think Drew Brees and Philip Rivers would like a word with you...

There will always be exceptions. Just like bad quarterbacks winning superbowls once in a while. Dilfer and Brad Johnson come to mind.

Although I don't recall Brees and Rivers franchises being referred to as losing cultures the way they do with teams like the Browns and Rams.

[/zn/]

You don't hire Wade Phillips if you're trying to do things on the cheap...

I assume you're agreeing with me? Cause that's more or less what I said (I think you are agreeing with me, it;'s just not quite clear.)

The same was true before. Guys like Williams, Wauffle, and Boudreau were all exensive hires. Fisher too, for that matter.

I also assume that Greg Olson cost them too because he turned down a coordinator position to be the Rams qb coach. My bet is that he costs, in contrast to other qb coaches.


...

[Elvis]

I assume you're agreeing with me? Cause that's more or less what I said (I think you are agreeing with me, it;'s just not quite clear.)

The same was true before. Guys like Williams, Wauffle, and Boudreau were all exensive hires. Fisher too, for that matter.

I also assume that Greg Olson cost them too because he turned down a coordinator position to be the Rams qb coach. My bet is that he costs, in contrast to other qb coaches.


...

You said "At least he did that with Fisher." My point is Kroenke is doing it with McVay too. Otherwise we wouldn't have Wade on our staff...